login   |    register

Scale Modeling Sponsors

See Your Ad Here!

Ships by Class/Type: Submarines
Topics on submarines of all types and eras.
Hosted by Todd Michalak
1/48 Trumpeter U boat with extras
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 01:04 AM UTC
Hi all,

I am going to show you all the progress as I dig my way through this massive kit. It has no less than 1137 parts over no fewer than 31 Sprues. On top of this we have a fret of 40 PE parts and of course the major hull sections.

I have made a very small start on the kit so far as I am currently buried in the beautiful Thunder models Scammell Tank Transporter.

Here we can see the very fiddly PE mesh which goes around the plastic 2 piece frame for catching shell cases from the 20mm tower mounted gun. If you are following Skipper Teds build on You Tube you'll see how much fun he had with this part.



The secret to getting this right is to anneal the brass. To do this I remove the part from the fret and simply heat it over a gas cooker flame. It needs to be cherry red all over so a lighter will not do all but the tiniest of parts. Once the part is cherry red, IMMEDIATELY immerse in cold water. You will find your part will have lost all springiness and will form like lead.

There are videos and tutorials around that are simply wrong. To anneal Brass you MUST quench it in cold water. yes I know, this is how you harden steel, but Brass is non ferrous..

Here we have the rest of the parts from the 20mm gun. a little simple in my opinion, but I have the Eduard BigEd set to help with this situation..



I have also built all 12 torpedoes, why.. I don't know.. we don't need them all!! These took forever cleaning up the seams. I need to remove the noses on the ones for stowage under the torpedo compartment. They were not loaded to the ship or stored with the fuse mechanisms fitted.



There are some errors with the kit. It would appear Trumpeter copied the Revell kit as they have made the same mistakes!!

The Torpedo doors are too long, the holes around the torpedo doors are misrepresented as a result. The free flooding hole patterns are incorrect for the type being modelled. There are no free flooding holes around the rear of the ballast tanks. The central drainage areas are incorrect in length and the anchor is too far astern. The small holes in a row on the upper Bow are incorrectly spaced and the three holes per side at the stem are too big, incorrectly spaced and there should only be two on the starboard side.

This is what I have picked up on so far and will correct all of it. I am no Submarine expert, just an interested modeller, so please advise any more errors if you know of them.

Here we can see the start of the mods. I have filled the flooding holes on the top of the Bow and partially filled the three off free flooding holes at the stem. There should be three on the port and two on starboard.



It's a shame they used clear plastic for the starboard half.. it's horrible to work with and so reflective it needs to be cut away to give a really clear vision of whats inside anyway!!

I'll add some interesting stuff to this thread later....
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 01:59 AM UTC
As I mentioned in my first post, I have the Eduard Big Ed set for this kit. It is a good set and adds detail all over the boat, but doesn't really go far enough in my opinion..

Then I found this....



It is manufactured by RC Subs, and is available on their website at www.rcsubs.cz Here's a linky.. http://www.rcsubs.cz/index.php/photo-etched-sets/20-sets-for-u-boat-viic-1-48-trumpeter-06801

This is what we call a PE set.. the main kit covers pretty much everything except the Antenna insulators, Torpedo doors and interior control wheels. These sets are available and I have them.. later..

The "Deck and Details" set comes as two frets measuring 285 x 175mm and one fret measuring 185 x 95mm. All frets are 0.2mm thick. I get lost trying to count the number of parts on each fret but I would guess there are around 600 parts here so we are looking at something in the region of 2000 parts all told with the kit as well!!

Here are the three frets which make up the set, known as parts 1, 2 and 3.







As we can see, we get all the lower free flooding holes as brass along with all the decks and tower deck. The slots and holes are all there making the model look a lot more realistic and less "toy like". The trained eye will be looking through all the tiny slots and holes to see the various vents, pipework and winch that lie beneath the deck.

Now I will move on to detailed shots of each fret, one by one. In this shot we can see the detail on the various hatches. Note that on the hatches made as part of the deck, they have separate hinges to glue on so will be raised as per the real thing.



Here we can see the fore deck which was painted steel plate. The spotted pattern on this deck is different from the kit so reference shots will be required to see which is correct for your model. Eduard have depicted this deck pattern as dots also, but much finer? The spots on this deck are a scale 120mm apart.



More hatch detail.. note in the centre of the pic, this fine part is actually the cable which is spiralled around the top of the attack periscope. I am not a sub expert so don't know the correct name for this unfortunately.. sorry.



Here is Part 2. I have pictured this with my 1/48 Blitz so you can get an idea of the size of this huge set..



This part goes inside the tower and is a stepped up area for lookout. The chequer plate is crisp. The part to the left of this is the replacement base for the attack periscope mount.. more on that later...



Just a quick shot to show the realistic deck slots..



And another.. this sheet is VERY flimsy and much care is required when handling..



The Tower deck..



On to Part 3, here we have some lovely detail on the curved parts which glue to the sides of the lower net cutters on the stem. Note the props, access discs and triggers for the torpedoes.



Additions for the prop shaft fairings.. We can also see the part for representing the flooding holes around the torpedo doors and stern.



The set comes with these A4 printed templates for cutting the decks to fit the PE with maximum support whilst still allowing the slots to remain clear.



And so onto the manual..

It comes in the form of a 22 page document on A4 paper and is printed in colour. The steps are broken down into sensible sized chunks. My manual contains instructions for all the 1/48 trumpeter U boat sets, but as I bought all the sets this may be why?

Here's the front cover.. interestingly showing the ARK model rather than Trumpeter??



I will show off some of the pages and go into more detail on the periscope.. here goes..

Bow deck detail/replacement and some capstan detail



Deck details aft of the tower



Those aerial insulators really are something else eh!!



In my opinion, this is a MUST have as Trumpeter have completely disregarded the rear torpedo tube externally and just left a gaping hole?



Now.. this in my opinion is a masterpiece in PE design. This is the attack periscope mounting assembly which is very prominent on the tower. It is quite simply modelled in the kit and will benefit from the detail given by the Eduard set, but this is just leaps and bounds in front of what you'll get with the kit and Eduard.



I am really looking forward to getting the soldering iron out and constructing this section. If it fits together well it will be VERY eyecatching!!

This set was purchased with my own hard earned cash and I am in no way connected to RC Subs, I just wanted to show off my latest purchase..
Black_sheep
Visit this Community
Bayern, Germany
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 345 posts
Model Shipwrights: 187 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 02:05 AM UTC
This will be a looong way mate, good luck with it!
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 03:03 AM UTC
Here's a little teaser of the latest set coming from RC Subs.. he's also doing one in 1/16th scale.



I can't show the full fret as I damaged it. A new one is in the post right now.. (Note to ones self).. never slide PE frets on top of each other!!!
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 03:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This will be a looong way mate, good luck with it!



Thanks mate!!
Grauwolf
#084
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Joined: September 14, 2005
KitMaker: 2,157 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,116 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 04:08 AM UTC
WOW!....that is going to be one huge model! Good luck with
this build...I am sure you will do a great job.

Will follow with interest.

Cheers,
Joe
JJ1973
#345
Visit this Community
Niedersachsen, Germany
Joined: August 22, 2011
KitMaker: 1,470 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,467 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 07:34 AM UTC
This really looks like a major project!!! -and probably a long journey!

I'm in an will be watching, all the best for your build!

Cheers,
Jan

RedDuster
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 5,111 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,696 posts
Posted: Monday, December 11, 2017 - 03:13 AM UTC
This looks a very interesting project Nigel,

Will be along for the ride.

Si
TimReynaga
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: May 03, 2006
KitMaker: 1,480 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,120 posts
Posted: Monday, December 11, 2017 - 08:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...It's a shame they used clear plastic for the starboard half.. it's horrible to work with and so reflective it needs to be cut away to give a really clear vision of whats inside anyway!! ...



Nigel, I agree completely! Why do manufacturers persist in producing ship models with those awful, hated clear plastic parts?



Oh well - I look forward to watching your progress on this monster!
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Monday, December 11, 2017 - 10:26 AM UTC
I've been working on the 20mm Flak Gun guys, and it's been pretty testing..

I rolled up the PE muzzle and didn't do a great job of it. I managed to get it bulged in the middle, as shown below..



Not happy with this, I turned up a new muzzle on the lathe.this thing is just under 2mm at the large end and 3.5mm long.

I have also finished the assembly and added the PE from the RC Subs set. I was going to use the Eduard PE for the aiming device but thought the RC Sub was more like the pics I have, even though I have fitted it to the opposite side from what the instructions say.



There are brass pins all over the place, mainly because the Trumpeter plastic in this gun is not good. Nothing has a positive location and it would all fall apart if one breathed on it without the pins!!



That basket was a challenge, but really enjoyable.

Finally, for a bit of fun, I made a Gun Truck.. I hadn't realised this gun was so big?



Thanks for looking guys.. I'm hoping someone makes an aftermarket gun to replace this one. I'm not a fan of this one at all.
TimReynaga
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: May 03, 2006
KitMaker: 1,480 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,120 posts
Posted: Monday, December 11, 2017 - 01:27 PM UTC
You may not have liked that gun, but you did a terriffic job with it. I love the gun truck!
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - 08:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You may not have liked that gun, but you did a terriffic job with it. I love the gun truck!



Thanks very much!! I am hoping Eduard will release a Brassin version just like their beautiful 88mm resin one??
JJ1973
#345
Visit this Community
Niedersachsen, Germany
Joined: August 22, 2011
KitMaker: 1,470 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,467 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 17, 2017 - 05:42 AM UTC
That's definitely some very nice work on the 20 mm FLAK!!

Cheers,
Jan
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Monday, December 18, 2017 - 05:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That's definitely some very nice work on the 20 mm FLAK!!

Cheers,
Jan



Thanks Jan, it could be better represented in resin though...
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Monday, December 18, 2017 - 05:06 AM UTC
Still busy on this and the Scammell guys. I seem to spend more time researching the U boat than anything else mind...

OK, we have many corrections to do to this kit. If you are familiar with the Revell kit you will know about all the errors. If you ignore them, you still get a beautiful model but the errors are still there. I'm OCD about these things so try and correct them, and as a result don't often finish anything!! It would appear Trumpeter have scaled up the Revell kit as they have made all the same errors!!

The Bow has just a couple of little errors as I will show you in the next two pics. I have come to these conclusions following hours of measuring drawings, scaling drawings up on the printer, then comparing the drawing to the real thing in pictures. believe me, there are some pretty dodgy drawings of type vii's out there.. tread carefully.



Please note the 12 off holes are just pen dots, that's why they look wonky..

In the next pic we can see where I think the anchor recess needs to be relocated to. The black outline is the current position, the red is the new position. Once moved the shape of the recess will also need to be taken care of.. it is way off.



These errors are a small percentage of what is wrong with the kit. There are misplaced, mishapen holes all the way from Stem to Stern. There are holes to be added, holes to be filled and holes to be extended. Its a shame the starboard half is clear as it is so reflective nothing can be seen through it so it needs to be cut away anyway to show off the interior. the clear is a bugger to work with..

I also notice that Trumpeter have missed out a lot of the pressure hull and that the bow and stern are just flat bulkheads. This is inaccurate, so much plastic card will be needed, particularly in the stern area, in order to replicate the pressure hull correctly. I have made the pressure hull ends by heating plastic card then pushing it into the base of a suitably sized aerosol can with my dogs rubber ball. After a bit of clean up and sanding the face flat it looks like a perfect solution!!



The forward torpedo tubes in the kit are too short, to accommodate the long torpedo doors. I have seen some ribbing on the tubes in many drawings so decided to make some aluminium extensions and add a representation of the ribbing. I know neither what it is for or what diameter it should be, but it looks somewhere handy and for the little it will be seen it'll do for me. I can only assume they are strengthening ribs to stop the tubes from being crushed by external pressure when submerged with the inner door open?



I have contacted RCsubs.cz about the errors on the kit and they have agreed to make a correction set much like the set available for the 1/72 kit. It is showing on the website as a prototype drawing so go take a look.. "it is called part 7". I hope to get this new fret as soon as it becomes available..
RedDuster
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 5,111 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,696 posts
Posted: Monday, December 18, 2017 - 09:21 AM UTC
Nice progress Nigel.

Do understand your desire to get the build just right, frankly moving the anchor recess would frighten me just a little.

Good luck with that, will be following along, meantime wishing you & yours a great Christmas.

Cheers

Si
RussellE
#306
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 2,153 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 - 10:10 PM UTC
Wow Nigel! This is truly one of those MEGA kits you hear about but never see built! Until now!

Couldn't believe it when Trumpy announced this and the price tag nearly gave me a heart attack!

Will be watching with interest!
JSSVIII
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,042 posts
Model Shipwrights: 38 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 - 11:42 PM UTC
Nice work Nigel, I am going to really enjoy watching your build.
JJ1973
#345
Visit this Community
Niedersachsen, Germany
Joined: August 22, 2011
KitMaker: 1,470 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,467 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 06:23 AM UTC
Nigel,

you really are not kidding with this one -! The amount of errors you found and the changes you are planning is amazing! This will be a most interesting build, really looking forward to following along!

Cheers,
Jan
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2017 - 01:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Nigel,

you really are not kidding with this one -! The amount of errors you found and the changes you are planning is amazing! This will be a most interesting build, really looking forward to following along!

Cheers,
Jan



Thanks Jan.. just keep reading.. this kit is full of errors, some easily made, some schoolboy errors are there too..


To start, I'd like to show you the re positioned Anchor recess. This clear plastic is soooooo brittle. You may notice it "de-laminates" as you cut it, shattering away at the edge. I have peeled away the dodgy areas and filled them with a mixture of poly sheet and Extra thin.

I now need to leave it for a few weeks to thoroughly cure befor final filling and clean up.. we don't want anything to sneak up on us once finished do we!!



On to some more errors Trumpeter have made here.. as you are already aware I am of the opinion they up scaled the Revell wolf pack kit as they have made the same errors externally. Well it would appear they have copied the 1/72 interior made by CMK for the Revell kit. There are huge square boxes on the sides of the CMK torpedo tubes, they also appear on the Trumpeter kit?? I cannot find a single reference that shows this. It is also clear they have either visited U995 at Laboe, or used the many online resources of this type viic as I am doing.. trouble is, they have included such things as fire extinguishers (Z13), added recently, they have included the sheet metal fabricated trunking for modern day lighting cables (marked in red), and even included what I think are electric heaters (Z24) added to keep the sub dry. (At least I think they are modern day heaters, please say if you know different)? AND.. what on earth is G6??? There should be oxygen canisters where they have put this part.. it looks like a hydraulic tank with pump and regulator??





They have also got the stowage doors wrong, in size and position and the flat wooden panel extends too far forward with a fictitious switch panel fitted to it. (Again, a copy of the CMK kit parts) The errors just keep coming!!

So, I've decided I need to go to town on this and make it more accurate and less toy like. This will mean some serious modification and a lot of surgery. I can see the bow section taking months alone, So I'll need to put this down from time to time to prevent losing my mojo..

You will see here I've started correcting the floor. Again, Trumpeter have copied the chequer plate that the museum has down to protect the original floor.. not quite sure how I'll get around this?? The front section of the floor will need to be removed as there is only a very narrow section between the tubes. I have also removed the plastic lumps from the deck head as I would rather replace it correct I beams. (T sections to be precise).

The torpedo storage deck is too long in the kit and is mounted too low down.



Next we have what I think is the biggest boo boo in the torpedo room. The kit has one clear side to expose the inner workings of the type viic right.. well, you would think the first thing to be considered and be shown is the pressure hull. This is the one most important aspect of any submarine, how it withstands the massive pressures encountered under water, but no, Trumpeter couldn't even get this bit right.. this is what you get for the pressure hull front bulkhead...





Can you imagine what would happen to this flat face when put under pressure?

Please ignore the chopped up torpedo tubes, they are still a work in progress.. I have slipped them into the flat part to show you what we get in the kit as an assembly..

So, with much work and measuring a million times and cutting once I have corrected the situation..



Now we have a correctly formed pressure hull Bow which will withstand massive pressure. We even have the mounting flanges for the torpedo tubes to slot into.



Not the two together for comparison. The mouldings locate a torpedo control panel and the gearbox for the Windlass. These will now be correctly located on strips between the torpedo tube mounting flanges.

I have also modified the Windlass support beam to more correctly represent the real thing. It's extended, reshaped, had holes filled and holes and slots added. Other than these changes it was perfect!!



Obviously, all the work you can see here is incomplete, most is still curing off and will be finished with primer and Mr Surfacer before being painted..

Thanks for stopping by.. I will have more on this very soon. If you can offer any help or advice, or see me going wrong please shout.. I am open to criticism as well as praise.
JSSVIII
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,042 posts
Model Shipwrights: 38 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2017 - 01:54 AM UTC
Great work moving that anchor recess Nigel, very elegant solution, removing the small piece, moving the recess, then replacing it on the opposite side. (at least it looks like that's what you did.)

It is a shame about the working qualities of the clear plastic, adding even more work to an already difficult project.
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2017 - 05:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Great work moving that anchor recess Nigel, very elegant solution, removing the small piece, moving the recess, then replacing it on the opposite side. (at least it looks like that's what you did.)



That's exactly what I did John.. and the reason it is cut in the shape of a parallelogram is to achieve the 2.5mm rise.
RedDuster
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 5,111 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,696 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2017 - 07:39 AM UTC
Great stuff Nige,

It is very disappointing when a manufacturer makes such a basic error like the fwd bulkhead of the pressure hull. Very neat correction. The torpedo tubes look quite a substantial construction.

Cheers

Si

U552reddevil
Visit this Community
Belgium
Joined: January 05, 2018
KitMaker: 1 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 05:51 AM UTC
Hey , Nigel , i am also building U 552 with the pe set from Oto Gerza . You are so right about the fu..ing plexi half . It really is a pain in the ass to work in . But i cut most of it away and it looks much better now . The Pe set is stunning . I have also an 1/48 enigma from Gerza
gloucesternige
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 293 posts
Model Shipwrights: 17 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 01:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey , Nigel , i am also building U 552 with the pe set from Oto Gerza . You are so right about the fu..ing plexi half . It really is a pain in the ass to work in . But i cut most of it away and it looks much better now . The Pe set is stunning . I have also an 1/48 enigma from Gerza



There is more on the way my friend.Check his website for the corrected hole pattern parts for U552 and also he is now making torpedo ramps and possibly a corrected pressure hull like mine?