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Italeri 1/35 scale S-100 Schnellboot
awiskerke
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Posted: Friday, January 02, 2009 - 04:40 AM GMT+7
Hi Ryan,
That's a welcome piece of info, thanks . Scratching mines is not easy, whereas they would add a lot of interest to a model. What I forgot to mention in one of my first posts regarding the skylights is that you can probably omit pe-parts nr. 8. These were meant to hold the black-out plates for the skylights, so if you fill in the skylights these parts would be pointless. Pictures show that there were some fittings in the positions of these pe-parts but unfortunately the pics are not clear enough to determine what the nature of these fittings was.

Arjan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Friday, January 02, 2009 - 10:40 AM GMT+7
Arjan,

I've got to tell you ...

Whoever that Murdock is, on those two kits - his work is simply amazing .............
awiskerke
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Posted: Friday, January 02, 2009 - 04:11 PM GMT+7
Murdock seems to have a sense of humor as well judging from his nickname. This evening I had a closer look at the Italeri smokedischargers. Unlike the Revell ones these have good valve detail and the bases are seperate parts. The problem with these bases, however, is that they do not clear the deck ( once more the same mistake made in the Revell kit) and they definitely should. I think the attachment points of the bases (to fit them to the deck) are not supposed to be on the sides of the base rim but underneath the base itself (sorry this is the third time I've been changing this text completely). The confusing thing is that there were also four metal rings/eyelets welded to the sides of the rim meant for tying the discharger to the base. I've got some very clear pictures of an early boat with these features but I can't guarantee that this also applies to S-100 boats (the three feet being welded to the bottom of the base and four rings/eyelets welded to the rim-sides). I only have one pic of the dischargers on an S-100 boat (Squadron page37) and here the eyes for tying down the discharger seem to be present as well, but I dare not say anything about the feet of the base. Again Italeri provide pe handgrips for the dischargers ,which being flat, are absolutely useless. Perhaps someone can show/tell me what the WEM discharger feet look like ( a photo of the real thing would obviously also come in handy). I have already cut off the attachment fittings from my bases but that may well have been a bit premature....

Arjan
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 08:34 AM GMT+7
Today my p&d set and beading tool arrived so I can start on the hundreds of rivets that were on the sides of the pilot house. First some strips (near the doors) and two (armour?)plates will have to be fitted to the port and starboard side. While studying the location of the outriggers (parts 15 D) I noticed that these should be located at least 1 cm further to the rear. In this respect the Revell model is wrong, and so are the drawings and illustration in the Squadron book. The reason for this mistake is probably that they focussed too much on the well-known pic of Ha-Jü which ,as I happened to notice, had an extra vertical panel on top of the Kalotte (unlike Lang and probably all other S-100 boats). Most people probably used the end of this panel to determine the location of the outrigger. Last week I also happened to find a picture of the Royal Navy commander (Hugh Ascoli) who took command of S-205 after it had surrendered. The pilot house of 205 is in the background, the base of the outrigger and quite a few rivets can be clearly seen:
http://www.hmsdunedin.co.uk/ascoli,_h1.htm
Good news for my fellow rivet counters I would say .

Arjan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 10:07 AM GMT+7
Arjan -

May I ask you to do a favor for me sir? Please email me at my PTConsultingNHR@aol.com address and not to my PM address here in my "Your Locker" section and tell me exactly where you saw that error in the drawings in the Squadron book. Thanks.

I would like to pass that onto my co-author as he supplied many of the drawings .... he might like to know ...

Garth
Gremlin56
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Posted: Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 01:31 PM GMT+7
GoeMid Arjan,
Schatton Modellbouw is bezig een set mijnen en een set dieptebommen te produceren in 1/35 schaal speciaal voor de Italeri S-100. Mogelijk ook de moeite waard om de 37 en 20mm lopen te vervangen door messing gedraaide lopen (ook van Robert Schatton).
groet,
Julian
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 02:16 PM GMT+7
Hi Julian,
Thanks for your info. Let's translate for the others what it is you wrote . Julian says that the German manufacturer Schatton Modellbau will shortly produce some mines and depthcharges intended for the Italeri kit. He also suggests exchanging the 20mm and 3.7 cm barrels for turned brass ones from the same manufacturer:
http://www.modellbau-schatton.privat.t-online.de/

Groet,

Arjan
awiskerke
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Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 09:10 AM GMT+7
I've tried to find more info on the feet of S-100 type smokedischargers. Mr Dave Krakow was kind enough to give me a hand here, he sent me pic and gave me a description. The picture seems to show that they should not have a round shape like the Italeri ones but I'm still not 100% sure of what they should look like. They should be attached at the sides of the rim ,though. I also noticed that the real dischargers look much squatter and bulkier than the Italeri ones so if I can find more suitable replacements I might exchange them. Another option would be to reduce their height which would also give them a squatter appearance. I posted a pic to show in what general position they should go when long, curved minerails are mounted. I have also been adding quite a few rivets using the smallest diameter of my p&d set. Unfortunately this diameter still isn't small enough,so they are pretty oversized. It is probably best to purchase some small diameter Grandt line rivets or similar ones (that would mean an awful lot of work, though, and such small rivets would be too much for my tired eyes). The best advice is probably to forget about the rivets altogether. To relieve the sheer tedium of adding rivets, I started correcting the 20 mm ammo-lockers. Since scratching boxes is quite difficult (if you want the angles to be perfectly true ,that is) I opted for correcting the Italeri ones. I simply glued the sloped ends of the identical pairs together which means that you are then left with two straight boxes. The only thing you then have to do is glue bits of plastic card to the ends (for one box: 2 x 2mm plates and for the other 1mm and 2mm) and finally cut them in half using a razorsaw. I intend to copy the position on the Lang boat. Three are mounted vertically and one horizontally (I posted a pic to show their approximate position). This means that at least the hinges of one locker will have to be altered. The hinges are not correct anyway because the "screw-strips" should be on the sides of the boxes and not on the lids. I feel that vertical lockers would be more logical for any S-boats that carried one or two inflatable boats. I also noticed that the Lang boat had a catwalk at the rear of the chartroom and some stowage shelves underneath. There are also helmet racks on the vertical rear panel on top of the Kalotte and a special kind of round stowage box on the rear wall of the chartroom.







Arjan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 09:12 AM GMT+7
I'm glad Mr. Krakow helped you.
#027
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Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 09:49 AM GMT+7
Very nice Arjan.

Kenny
awiskerke
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Posted: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 04:24 PM GMT+7
I wonder if anyone knows if there are any pe/plastic sets available containing the type of hinges present on the lockers? I've seen two Aber pe hinge sets but the shape of these isn't quite what I'm looking for. A long time ago I bought some Grandt line plastic hinges but I can't find them and I don't know if they are the right size and shape anyway. The screwstrip should be about 4mm long .

Arjan
awiskerke
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Posted: Thursday, January 08, 2009 - 07:45 AM GMT+7
As far as the smoke discharger feet and hinges are concerned I've decided to wait for an aftermarket etch-set which will no doubt include these items. For those wanting to add a rubber dinghy I can recommend the Dragon figure set "German Sturmpioniere with assault raft".
http://www.combatmodels.fi/kuvat/dragon/DR6076.jpg
This inflatable boat was the same type used on S-Boote and I found that it matches existing pics perfectly. It's a nice little kit that also includes paddles and an air-pump. As I'm a German engineer enthusiast, I purchased quite a number of these over the years. It's nicely detailed and adds quite a lot of interest to the S-Boot deck.

Post script: Today I ordered some Schnellbootweiss paint and some other colours as well. While checking some Italeri colour instructions I happened to notice that they suggest using a gold colour for the props. As far as I know the props were made of high quality steel and not of bronze. You should probably be wary of their other colour instructions as well. By the way it's amazing to see the progress of the German, Andreas. He didn't only finish his Italeri kit quite some time ago but he has by now incorporated it into a most amazing diorama (first click on Massstab 1:35 and then on the S-100 item):
http://www.plasticmodellbausaetze.de/

Arjan
WayneMorrissey
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Posted: Thursday, January 08, 2009 - 04:20 PM GMT+7
Arjan:

In answer to your question about the PE racks on the back of the wheel house. Those are the racks for the gun crew's helmets. The standard german helmet was issued in dark blue with Kreigsmarine markings to all Schnellboote crews.

Hope that helps,

Wayne
awiskerke
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Posted: Thursday, January 08, 2009 - 04:50 PM GMT+7
Thanks Wayne,
My question referred to the single angular rack which is on the rear panel of the bridge area (first picture) , I wasn't referring to the helmet-racks on the rear wall of the chartroom (pilothouse). I understand that my descriptions may be a bit confusing at times , English is not my mothertongue and I'm not much of a naval expert either.

Regards,

Arjan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Friday, January 09, 2009 - 09:38 AM GMT+7
Can you provide me with a photo of the part Arjan? Maybe if I see it - I could maybe tell you what it is.
Gremlin56
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Posted: Friday, January 09, 2009 - 10:19 AM GMT+7
Andreas has done a very nice looking build but he pooched the torpedo tube doors by putting them on wrong way round (check the photos). Apart from that he really put down a fast time building it.
Also have a question for you Arjen about the screw shafts. you pointed out that the screws should be a silver colour. Italeri tells us in the instructions that the shafts should be gunmetal. Is this correct? I would think that the exposed metal would get a nice coat of anti-fouling like the rest of the underwater hull. Can you give any feed back on that?
cheers,
Julian
53Buick
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Posted: Friday, January 09, 2009 - 11:42 AM GMT+7
Howdy,
I was wondering about the square raft color. Off the Italeri photos I've seen, it appears to be a burnt mustard color. Anyone else have a better color suggestion? Ryan
awiskerke
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Posted: Friday, January 09, 2009 - 01:07 PM GMT+7
Hi,
You seen to be right about the torpedo-doors Julian. No wonder he got some details wrong building at such a tremendous pace. I wouldn't know about the colour of the propeller shafts, I don't know if stainless steel was available in those days. It would appear, though, that our Kroketten Kapitän also painted them in a metal colour. He seems to be someone who knows what he's doing. I ordered a Schnellboot book by Harald Fock last week, this seems to be one of the more technical books, so there might be some info about these shafts as well. I wouldn't know about the colour of the rafts either. The dinghies were medium grey (there are some colour pics of these) and in black and white pics, the rafts appear to be equally light (or dark) but that doesn't say much. Perhaps there are some colour pics of other types of German ships that also had these rafts.

Regards,

Arjan
Gremlin56
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Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 02:13 AM GMT+7
Thanks Arjan, if you run into any info on the shafts please post it here. I have ordered some metal foil sheets to make canvas dodgers as all S-boats seem to be fitted with them and I couldn't resist ordering an essential item for a German S-boat stationed in Holland: a 1/35 scale bicycle to stash on deck somewhere for the crew to head off to the local pub when in port (its a long standing piece of Dutch lore that most Dutch citizens had their bicycle stolen by German occupation troops during the second world war "Wo ist mein fahrrad" ). In contrast to the scratch building and superdetailing you are doing my S-boat will be mostly OOB.
cheers,
Julian
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 03:39 AM GMT+7
Hi Julian,
Nice idea to incorporate the "waar is mijn fiets" (where is my bike) theme . What I find most striking about Andreas' boat model is that he reversed the vents. I wonder if he has a pic of a boat that had the funnels in this position. Personally I don't think the funnels could be turned in any direction. I also wonder to what extent his quay area resembled De Molen in the Hague. I don't know much about the history of the Hague I must say.

Groet,

Arjan
Gremlin56
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Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 03:58 AM GMT+7
I think it is very likely that the vents can be rotated, there is even a PE grip you have to fit so that they can be turned (see instruction sheet). There would also appear to be a join (rotation point?) just below the intake and PE handle to the rest of the vent pipe. On the freighters I sailed on (in my younger years ) the vents could be turned to get maximum ventilation effect despite prevailing wind direction or when in port.
I have had a quick look in the reference books I have on S-boats but can't find any photo's of an S-100 with the vents turned towards the stern.
Do you have S-Boote, German E-boats in action 1939 - 1945 by Jean-Philippe Dallies Laboudette (ISBN 2-913903-49-5) and the Squadron Signal Schnellboote in action publication?
Julian
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 05:17 AM GMT+7
I think the grips on the funnels were just meant to hold on to. If you study the pic of Commander Hugh Ascoli you will notice that the funnel seems to have been rivetted to the "pipe", also there are no grips here. I have both books you mentioned, I don't think it would be wise to provide download links to these here, if that's what you had in mind. I know of two people at least who would not enjoy this .

Arjan
awiskerke
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Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 07:21 AM GMT+7
I received Steve Wiper's book German S-Boats minutes ago. It's not the Warship pictorial book I thought I had ordered ,though... It's a book containing lots of modelpics, linedrawings (which are not terribly accurate,eg. the small hatches on the foredeck once more have not been depicted) and some photos of the real things. Still it's a very nice book and it only cost me 11 pounds (including postage), it's available through Amazon.uk. It also has the very same diorama made by Andreas. The original was made by Joseph Neumeyer,a professional model builder who resides in San Pedro California (he does have a German name though). I have just discovered his work on the internet:
http://www.dynamicdioramas.org/sea_hunter/sea_hunter.html
The book also contains Murdock's S-38 conversion. His real name is Lutz Fuhrmann (the name I happened to see on one of the etch frets earlier). Even though I was expecting a book full of "real" pics I can recommend this book to you. There is also a colour pic of an S-Boot that was salvaged by British and American naval intelligence people. The prop shafts have the same colour as the rest of the underwater hull. The anti-fouling paint apparently had degraded to such an extent that one can only guess at its original colour. The props still appear to be quite shiny and it seems to be a polished metal color rather than bronze.

Arjan
Gremlin56
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Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 08:44 AM GMT+7
What's a download link

Thanks for the link and the shaft information. I'll adjust my shiny nice shafts to red anti-fouling.
cheers,
Julian
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Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 11:30 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Post script: Today I ordered some Schnellbootweiss paint and some other colours as well. While checking some Italeri colour instructions I happened to notice that they suggest using a gold colour for the props. As far as I know the props were made of high quality steel and not of bronze.

Arjan



Arjan you may want to confirm this. As far as I remember from discussions with Kevin Wheatcroft and Dave Krackow only six propellers were ever made of steel at the very end of the war. Certainly all three of the props the collection has for the restoration are all bronze.

Regards
Brian