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Italeri 1/35 scale S-100 Schnellboot
Biggles2
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Posted: Friday, April 15, 2016 - 02:57 AM UTC
The flottila symbol is a circle with leaping gazelle (or something). If the radar on the S100 date it to be late 1944 - end of war, where would they be situated? The wooden pier would suggest not NW Europe, but maybe Norway, or the Med?
mikec_2
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Posted: Friday, April 15, 2016 - 03:47 AM UTC
.
.

The 8th S-boat flotilla used this emblem.




The location of the photo is un-known. Maybe ... Norway ?



Note: In this enlargement of the S-100 boat. The FuVB-24 antenna is turned vertical instead of the more common horizontal poison.





Mike


the-Rocketman
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Posted: Friday, April 15, 2016 - 01:33 PM UTC
Mike,

Think this antenna is from the FumB 26 Tunis and not from the Fumb 24 Cuba.
The antenna of the 24 is on my pictures horizontal the 26 insted vertical.

With kind regards

Bert
Biggles2
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Posted: Friday, April 15, 2016 - 08:19 PM UTC
I notice the Naxos antenna is mounted on starboard side of the chartroom extension roof. And on other examples it is mounted close to port side signallers platform. So they mounted it wherever they felt like? Or where there was room?
Biggles2
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Posted: Friday, April 15, 2016 - 08:37 PM UTC
Did some Googling here: https://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/km/sboot/sfl-frames.htm&prev=search It says 1943 - 45, the 8th Flotilla was stationed in North Sea/English Channel, and later 1945, in Baltic. Doesn't mention Norway. Can anyone add to that, or elaborate?
mikec_2
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Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2016 - 07:38 AM UTC

Greetings All;

In late 1944-45 the 8th was operated out of Ijmuiden. North Holland, or the Netherlands.





The following is from the book ..... S-Boote German E-boats in action 1939-1945.... Jean-Philippe Dallies-Labourdette





Also of interest, the 8th used two different emblems.




and




later,

Mike





Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2016 - 09:38 PM UTC
Thanks Mike. Very good information.
xrz100
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 12:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

.
.
Greetings Noel;


I am sending a copy of a photograph that I picked up a while back. One of the S-boats is a S-100 with a Flakvierling quad 38.
The second boat looks like a S-38b. Instead of a 37mm gun it has a 40mm Buff.

From what I have read you can use ether one.

Also I have references that say in the Med. some of the boats used the MG-151 Drilling 20mm gunmount, at the waist position, instead of the normal two barreled 20mm gunmount.

[/img]




url=http://www.servimg.com/view/16276837/2589][/url]



url=http://www.servimg.com/view/16276837/2591][/url]














Later,

Mike





Hello Mike,

I don't know where you found this picture, but I have to tell you it is a fake.

This is a picture of Pavel [Balrog], aged and provided with Svastika. Looks quite impressive, but I watched that thread over quite a period of years and I remember those pictures. Unfortunately Pavel has deleted all his picture thus I don't have a proof. But all experts can count the rescue items on the boats. Everyone that has the pictures from "Schnellboote vor" when the 2 boats surrendered in Felixstowe know that the rescue consists of 3 Liferafts and a dingy positioned on the 2 liferaft positioned between the 2 cm twinflak and the 3,7 or 4 x 2cm quad flak.

Further I have not seen any picture of a camouflaged S100, all camo boats were normally S38 boats (you can tell the difference by the vents behind the bridge, square vents S38, Round vents S100).

Mast where not used during the war to cut the silhouette short, only for only later all radar technique was sometimes posted on a short mast.

The triple flak was used in the mediternian sea by the 3rd Flotilla (Friedrich Kemmnade was commanding officer)But those ships did not had yet a free space in the middle of the deck where you normally expect now the 2 cm Twin Flak.

There is a nice diving video from an S boat near Croatia, but I have the link on a different computer.

I hope some of this helps

bis denne

Christian
mikec_2
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 08:50 AM UTC
.
.

Greetings Christian;


I see the internet wars are still alive, and continue.


Also, I would like to see some kind of prof about the photo
being a fake.

It is far to easy to slue, and tant peoples reputations on the internet. I have seen far to much of it. I truly wish people could learn how to play fare, and hold the bickering down.

On the subject of camouflage on the S-100 boats.

Other than the Squadron Signal book. Most of my other ref.
books leads me to believe that some were camo-ed.

Me-thinks ... This issue is best left up to the builder to make a decision for them self.


Have a good one,

Mike






xrz100
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Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 12:15 AM UTC
Hello Mike,

mmmmh yes and no. I have not undermine your reputation for posting a picture here in the forum. Pavel was a good builder, but even though his boats had some flaws in the detail. Difficult to tell from this picture detail. I have not found the pictures neither here nor in the polnish forum – so at the end no hard evidence.

Of interest would be where you found this picture?

Further on page 44 of this thread Robert is explaining a few mistakes Pavel had on the bridge for the S38 – still a good scratch build.

What can be determined from this picture is the height of the MG15, Pavel unfortunately mounted them to high, so vertical shooting across the sea where not possible for a normal sized sailor. Further the Targeting computer is mounted in the center of the bridge of the S38, even though it should be more to the port side.

On the S100 bridge you can see the vents going angled the whole length, when you have watched the pictures from S100, you will see, that the vent went vertical and only the further to the top the vent made a move outside: Those straight angled vents are from ITALERI. Similar is the round vent opening on the back of the S100 bridge below the helmets, which does not exist in Harald Focks plans.

What concerns the camouflage S100, there is still no evidence for it. I think those camo boat look very aggressive and if someone want his boat to look like thise his/her call, but evidence for this is not existing to my little knowledge. I am alos active at Germany “Marine Archive” a forum for Marine personal and Marine ship builder – no camo S100 boat available there either.


Anyway, I cannot provide any evidence (the original picture in color, more detailed). If this is what you are looking for, but again I was not questioning your reputation..

If you can provide the url for the picture than in more detail I cn provide more ITALERI evidence.

Bis denne

Christian
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Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 08:28 AM UTC

Greetings Christian;

Thanks for the replay.......


On the subject of reputations. I was not thinking of myself, Lord knows you can't harm my reputation, for I do not have one; well, not one worth Mencken.

I was thinking of Pavel. It seems kind of harsh to say,that the photo is a fake based on minor differences in ones observations.

May-haps .... It would be better to say ..... that the authenticity of the photo is questionable. and then list the reasons for your statement.
This way, we let the readers of our message make there own decision on the photo in question.

One of the problems I have noticed, concerning building models now days is that...... everyone wants to see a photograph.

In the old days..... if you could find reference in a reputable book it was considered ok. There are only so many photos that will ever be available. This is a limitation
that ties our hands behind our backs.

While I have a good B**** going, I will include the nit-picking over minor details on peoples models.

This is suppose to be a fun hobby. I soon found out, when I started building for competition. There is not much fun, there anymore. So I quit. And ques what I found ? the fun was still there. It just was not ware I was looking

Have a good day,

Mike







Biggles2
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Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 07:58 PM UTC
Not going to bash or make claims, but those bridge vents on the S100 do look straight, but leaning outwards; the lower portion should be vertical, then angle outwards, as Christian point out. If it's a fake photo, it's a darned good one.
xrz100
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Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 08:55 PM UTC
I agree it is a damn good fake and again I think Pavel did a great job on building those 2 boats.

Mike this thread is going over 47 pages about detailing the S-Boats and all contributed Arian, Robert and others on the basis of Plans by Harald Fock, Schnellboote vor and other books. All this resulted in several corrections drawn and provided as small plans from Robert’s homepage. To this end I think most people here tried to adhere to the details being discussed here.

To this end you can build what you want and the execution will be appreciated. But if you want to build in accordance what existed – evidence is required – that includes a picture. Just because Italeri is posting a picture of a camouflaged S100, not necessarily means that it existed. When you read through the pages of this thread you will find all details of little flaws and subsequent corrections. However, we also found several field adjustments (proved by pictures):

Main points are:
 Diameter of bow flak (Italeri too small)
 Long vents (Vertical and than angled)
 Ammunition boxes are standing (not lying)
 Number of liferafts and dingys (for 24 men of staff you need 3 rafts + dingy plus life rings)
 Telephone boxes at both rear flak positions.
 Form of the depression rail
 Smoke buoys (German and French)
 MG15
 Magazine holders for MG15
 Commander seats

Bis denne

Christian
xrz100
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Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 11:29 PM UTC
in the following diving video of a wreck near Croatia, you can see a twin 2 cm Flak in the rear and further 2 post for weapons towards the steering house. Questionable which weapon those (light) post can hold. Twin MG15???

no idea, enjoy the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEdt7BLVgjA
mikec_2
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Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 09:51 AM UTC
Greetings Christian & Guys;


I do not recall where I picked up Pavel's photo. I have been collecting S-boat photos for several years.

I agree about Italeri's S-100 boats problems. They could have done a better job, considering the amount of money they charge for the model kit.
But it does give us a place to start......

Also of menschen, is the torpedo computer. It should look more like this...





I am including a few of my in-work photos. Note the upper deck is not glued yet.




























I was also thinking about replacing the two bridge MG-15s with MG-34s.

Also, maybe a 4cm Borford on the stern gun position, instead of the quad Flack 38.


I am not sure if it is correct to post other builders work on the site. These two are for inspirational purposes only. You have to Amite, the paint is excellent....








Later,

Mike


xrz100
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Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 12:01 PM UTC
Hello Mike, sure also pictures from other builds can be posted here to show something or insire – indeed a nice color cheme already faded a bit.

I have not seen the MG34 MG at the bridge only the MG15, but more important is the height of the MG to shot along the sea surface for lose combat.

I am currently drawing the Targeting computer in 1:18, also for scaling later to 1:35, but it will certainly take some time until this will be available at Shapeways in my shop. Other parts are already there smoke boeys. Nebelkannen, etc.
Bis denne

Christian


http://www.shapeways.com/shops/iron-models
mikec_2
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Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 12:36 PM UTC


Greetings Christian;


You have a nice start on replacement parts for the model kit.

Will you be making replacements for the Long vents (Vertical and than angled) .... ?

I will be interested in getting a set of your smoke pots, and possibly your torpedoes.

Nice work ........


later,


Mike


xrz100
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Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 01:28 PM UTC
Hello Mike, that should be possible. Give me until next weekend, I am currently still on Mallorca at a bike camp. I have to take some measures from the superstructure to angle the flat base of the vent accordingly.

bis denne

Christian
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Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 07:05 PM UTC
MIke,

The Flak vierling you have is a army type for a conversion on th S-100 you have to use the naval version with the high pedestall.

Nice to see that this forum starts again with a new life.

Greetings Bert
xrz100
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Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 07:34 PM UTC
I agree Bert, nice to have some discussion around my lovly torpedo carrier.

Mike Robert Palmacci made a plan for the Flak4Ling pedestal, I can do this in 3d too, the question would be how to fix the Flak to the pedestal. Maybe we can copy the same principle from the Flak kit, but that would require you to provide some measures from the model.

bis denne

Christian
mikec_2
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Posted: Friday, April 22, 2016 - 03:47 PM UTC


Greetings Bert;


I concur... The update set is for the gismos, or the goodies......


Naval 2cm Flak-38, with out the shield :

















With Shield:






Later,


Mike

mikec_2
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Posted: Friday, April 22, 2016 - 04:08 PM UTC
Mike Robert Palmacci made a plan for the Flak4Ling pedestal, I can do this in 3d too, the question would be how to fix the Flak to the pedestal. Maybe we can copy the same principle from the Flak kit, but that would require you to provide some measures from the model.





Greetings Christian;


Sounds good ..... But, lets hold of on the pedestal now. I still have not made a decision, between the 2cm Flak-38, or the 4cm Bofords mount.




Which one do you like the best ?


Maybe the 4cm on the stern, and the MG-151 Drilling mid-ship ?

Guys, give me some feedback ......


Later,

Mike

xrz100
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Posted: Friday, April 22, 2016 - 09:54 PM UTC
Hello Mike,

A Bofors would require also to change (add the deck) to post the bofors in the right height. Both guns Flak4ling and Bofors would be possible. Less effort requires the Flak Vieling and it can be tunred much nicer.
At the end I do not recall a single picture of an S100 with a Bofors gun, but it was technical one weapon option Kriegsmarine offered. A triple Flak I have not seen on the S-boats at all. The question is Mike what type of boat you would like to build?

Your boat – than go for Bofors and Tripple in the center. An authentic boat, than go for the Flak4Ling and the twin Flak in the center.

Sorry I don’t want to ruin your fun, but this is the general call you have to make. Bofors was mainly installed on the S38 and 38b types, but Kriegsmarine realized that it required more men to operate the Bofors than the 3,7 Flak, therefore on most S100 boats we see mainly the 3,7 or even later when Air supremacy was with the allies a Flak4Ling.

Bis denne

Christian
xrz100
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Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 11:38 PM UTC
Hello Gents, here is a link for the meantime: http://schnellboot.net/de/kriegsmarine/schnellboote-fotos/

there are some picture for an S18 type and an S38 early type still with a 2cm Flak at the rear.

bis denne

Christian
xrz100
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 12:40 AM UTC
I designed 2 different Quad Flak Pedestal thanks to Albert for providing the pictures to me, the one with the 8 rips is the one designed by Robert Palmacci, based on his reserach:



Overall there are a few different pedestal some high, some realy low, there seems to be a few field adjustments - enjoy the pictures. One pedestal should be arround 8 to 9 EUR. Still a pin needs to be added to fix the pedestal on the deck and the Quadflak needs to be fixed to the top plate.

bis denne

Christian